All About HR
All About HR
#2.12 - Intuition at Work: Why It’s Relevant for HR
What place does your intuition have at work? 🤔
In this episode of All About HR season 2, we talk with Brian G. Bachand — Founder @ Evolution Evolution — about the importance of following intuition in the workplace for HR . 🙌
Brian is an experienced coach and advisor whose mission is to help leaders align with their talents and values to succeed in their roles. 💪
In this episode, we discuss:
📍 Skills transfer from one field to another
📍 Signs that you should follow your intuition
📍 The impact of intuition on leadership and business performance
Listen to the full episode to find out how you can start listening to your intuition and HR’s role in normalizing intuition at the workplace. 👏
Ready for the full experience? Watch the episode in video format.
Useful resources:
- HR Generalist — online training
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Brian G. Bachand: If you're running, you know, a financial institution or an education institution - doesn't matter what it is, yes, you have the expertise, you know the field, you know what you want to accomplish. And that's great, and you need to have that expertise. At the same time, we cannot limit ourselves to what we think needs to take place in those discussions. Our intuition will often receive information from someone else to be open to what is taking place.
Neelie Verlinden: Hi, everyone, and welcome to a brand new episode of All About HR. My name is Neelie. I'm your host, and on today's episode, I speak with Brian G. Bachant. Brian is the founder of Evolution Evolution. He's also a coach and advisor for leaders on a mission in their work. And he is many other things. And Brian and I are going to talk about a topic that I'm personally super excited about, namely, intuition at work, something that seems to be a topic that we don't talk that much about in the workplace. And that's exactly why Brian and I can't wait to get started on it. Before we get to our conversation, though, as always, if you haven't done so yet, subscribe to our channel, hit that notification bell, and like this video.
Neelie Verlinden: Welcome to another episode of All About HR.
Neelie Verlinden: Brian, welcome to the show. How are you?
Brian G. Bachand: I am wonderful. It is such a joy to be here today. We didn't really thank you for the invitation. What a gift to spend this time with you and your audience.
Neelie Verlinden: Yeah, I couldn't agree more Brian. And I mean, also organizing this conversation went so smoothly. It's almost like this was meant to happen at some point, wasn't it?
Brian G. Bachand: I totally agree. You know, when things go smooth, I take that as a sign. It's like the hexagons at the back of you, you know, they just fit together with ease. And that's the way it should be.
Neelie Verlinden: Absolutely. Now, Brian, I think what could be really nice for our audience, is if we could start with your life story in a nutshell, because I think we can talk about that alone for hours and hours. But perhaps you can share that with the audience as a starter.
Brian G. Bachand: Absolutely. I'll give the nutshell version of The Life of Brian. So I was born in Boston. So I'm American. And although I live in Toronto, Canada right now and grew up in Boston, after university, I went on to graduate school, but it was in the context of the seminary, where I went on to study to become a Catholic priest, and I was a priest, actually, for eight years, four years in a parish, which I really loved. It was amazing. And then the last four years, I was the private secretary, which would equal to be something translated to mean chief of staff, to a cardinal from the Vatican and supporting his work. And it was an amazing journey. But intuitively, and also just there was a sense as well inside that I wanted to bring my life, my mission, my truth into a world in a different way. So I freely resigned, all on good terms. And I went on to New York City to become an executive, which continued on to be work in Toronto. And then in 2019, just a couple months before the pandemic, I launched Evolution Evolution. And it's named evolution twice as a nod to our natural evolution as humans, but also that special evolution that we can personally own to follow our desires, and to evolve into the person that we know we are destined to be. Wow, that's the nutshell version, I can go longer than that.
Neelie Verlinden: That definitely is the nutshell version. Brian, thank you so much for sharing that. I think one thing that comes to mind is that when you moved on from being a priest or being - actually I like that analogy of being the chief of staff, so to speak, for I believe a cardinal in the Vatican, and then you moved on into the business world, I'm going to call it in New York. What made you take that decision? Apart from your intuition, I guess.
Brian G. Bachand: Yeah. So you know, one of the things I always say is, and this is something I work with my executives and teams, it always comes down to one very simple question: What do I desire? Because in our desires is the truth of what is seeking to come forward and that relates to our professional life. It can relate to relationships, it can relate to what you might want for dinner, to where you want to go on vacation. In our desires is truth. And that's what I asked myself. I desired. I felt this sense intuitively that I was being groomed for more leadership in a church, and I wasn't unhappy in any way, shape, or form, but I knew in my heart there was something else. And I simply gave myself the space over a period of time to really sit with that question, what do I desire? What would my life look like? And it didn't mean I had to have all the answers. But I gave myself the space to be curious, to talk with a professional about that to deal with some of the fears that was coming up, because oftentimes your desires, there are fears attached, what are people going to say? How are you going to do this? How are you going to make money. And working through that and not rushing it gave me the clarity on the right next action to take. And in the end, I knew it was to freely resign to begin a new path. And I knew that desire was to land in Manhattan. That's the one thing I had super clarity on, no clue how and in no way knowing how to do it. But intuitively, I just followed different aspects. And it led me to my first job.
Neelie Verlinden: Yeah, really, really, really powerful story. And so then you found yourself in Manhattan, you found a job there in an entirely different environment, I would still then be curious to hear maybe a little bit more about what kind of lessons you could basically bring from your, let's say, former life into this new life in Manhattan.
Brian G. Bachand: So you know, I'll start with when I was looking for the job, because I'm sure there are so many individuals that are listening right now that you know, have had to look for a job, maybe they're considering a job move. And it's stressful, and especially where I was located, I was still fully involved in my role working for the cardinal, but I was in a moment of transition, looking for a job. And especially when you're trying to transition skills from one life to another, it is not easy. Now I got some guidance on where to look. And what happened one day, I was, you know, I had a few areas that I was looking at. HR was one of them. Fundraising was another and I was on the phone with my sister. And she's quite chatty. And I'm listening to her kind of just saying, like, you do some time that someone's talking. And I was on my computer, and I was scrolling, looking at jobs in New York City. I think was like on Indeed. And all of a sudden, this job appeared. And it said Director of Corporate Development in Manhattan with the American Cancer Society. And I read the job description. And I knew at that moment, I said, that's my job. That is my job. And it just, like, I felt it. And I applied. And then I took the initiative that I also researched to find out who I thought might be the hiring manager to reach out to her and introduce myself. She responded back saying I never got your application from HR. So it shows that sometimes you have to go around and we had a phone conversation. Two weeks later, I was in New York City for interviews, and I was offered the job a week later. And I had no expertise in fundraising, but they wanted someone that could build relationships and had drive. And I just knew that I was able to present that. And I think when you know that your desire has been tested, you've looked at every aspect and you're following the truth of the light of that there's no way your intuition is going to lead you in the wrong direction. And I knew that's exactly what happened. So literally two months later, there I am on 32nd Street in Manhattan, starting a whole new career and a whole new city.
Neelie Verlinden: Fantastic. I really, really, really love this story. And I hope it will also inspire some people in our audience, of course. Now, Brian, I think we're going to slightly change tack a little bit here, because we also want to talk a little bit more about intuition at work. Of course, I already briefly touched on this in my introduction, but in today's often very data-driven world of work, intuition can sometimes almost seem a dirty word or at least something that doesn't have a place in our professional lives. I think maybe we're going to actually say something different today, but still, yeah, this is really something that I'm hoping that we can explore a little bit more. So perhaps we can start with this. What does intuition mean to you?
Brian G. Bachand: So first of all, it's important to realize, you know, many people when they think of intuition, they hear that, especially in a work context, they think it's some woo-woo thing. It's something coming from HR wellness. You know, what does this mean? I'm all about data science, every single human being has an intuitive spirit within them. The only difference is that some people are more attuned to listening to it and following it. Our intuition is always gathering information through what we hear, through what we see, through what we experience. Our memories, experiences, and feelings. And all we need to do is tap into that at different moments. So I think that's really important. And I think the pandemic has paused humanity, it has evolved. And that's why you hear more people right now about mindfulness, about the change in the work culture, because it's been more of an awareness of their inner intuition that's coming out of what they're desiring to do. So I just want to begin right away. That's very clear. So when I started at the American Cancer Society, it was in 2008. And in Manhattan in 2008, to find one of the financial capitals of the world. My role was working with all the major financial institutions and getting huge money for different programs and initiatives. And in September of 2008, we look back in history, we know what happened. The economy almost collapsed, Wall Street took a dive, and all of a sudden, it changed overnight that all of my clients in my portfolio, were saying, Brian, we no longer can fulfill that commitment. Financially, millions of dollars were not going to be coming in. And there was panic, there was fear. But I had a moment after a big meeting one day of listening to my intuition that changed the course of the rest of my year. Yes. And I'll tell you what that is. Yeah. So we had a meeting one Friday. I’ll never forget it. One of the most kind of senior executives called all the people who were on the major front lines, everyone under the big portfolios, into a boardroom, on a Friday. It was a horrible Friday, it was raining outside, I remember looking at across these buildings and the clouds, and the rain was pouring down the windows. And this individual stood there and really kind of led with fear saying, you know, we're not getting the millions and we're not getting this money, you're on the front line. If we don't get this there are going to be massive consequences for our employees and programs, etc. And you could feel the tension. And the meeting ended at six o'clock on a Friday night, everyone went back to their offices, you could hear just the stillness and the weirdness. And I remember going back, and I felt peaceful. I don't know why I just said, I've already made bigger decisions in my life. So I said, this is not going to scare me, you know, but I remember thinking there has to be a new way of looking at this. I left that Friday night. And that Sunday, I was out for a run. And all of a sudden, I remembered that inside my desk in my office in New York, I had a stash of business cards that I had from people I had met those days when we all had business cards. And I remember this gentleman, that he sat next to me in an event, he worked at one of the major banks, and he told me that he had funds designated for diversity funds that he said, It's funny that they don't get used as much. And all of a sudden, that card came to my mind. And I said I'm reaching out to him Monday morning, and I did. We had a meeting. And I told him I was thinking about why don't we create an event to have diversity funding for an initiative with the American Cancer Society. Long story short, it led to the biggest fundraising event that year within the organizations raising the most money for LGBT plus awareness of cancer. It brought a new company, new revenue, new sponsorships. It created new positions, the only role that created new positions in the company. And it all came from just an intuitive thought. He wasn't on my pipeline, my strategic plan, and following that, and to me that just affirmed when I've already had those nudges to always follow.
Neelie Verlinden: I think what many of us perhaps have forgotten is how to recognize those nudges. And then how to tap into those. Do you have some guidance when it comes to that? Maybe?
Brian G. Bachand: Yeah so I think, you know, our intuition is, is sometimes subtle, you know, I mean, it's kind of like someone just tapping you on the shoulder gently. So you feel the tap, but it's up to you whether or not you're going to turn around to look who tapped you. But you felt it. You can either look or you can move forward. So we have to remember intuition is going to give us sometimes an image, it can be like that business card, like I asked the question, Who else could I connect with? There must be someone else. When you ask the question, you give it space, oftentimes, that's when things will come back to your mind as an image. You might get a feeling you might be speaking with someone and someone will say a name. Like they could be saying, Oh, I was in conversation the other day with my friend Jack, and all of a sudden it might come to us like I should reach out to Jack Smith. I never thought of contacting him. As I said, our intuitions are always gathering and what will happen is they'll just be that little pause. You'll just feel it and that is always an indication that you need to pay attention to it and what happens. Like anything in life, you become more confident when you follow it, and it leads to something. So when you follow it, and it leads to something proactive, then when you have that, again, you're more inclined to follow it without doubting it. Our logical minds are the big speed bumps that usually hold us back totally.
Neelie Verlinden: And I mean, I guess this is something that the more you practice this, as you said, you know, the better you will become at recognizing it, and then listening to it and trusting it. But do you have any, maybe any tips on how we can try and practice this on a daily basis?
Brian G. Bachand: Absolutely. So I'm all about simple actions leading to significant outcomes. And so one of the best ways to do that is literally just to quiet yourself down, even if it's just for two minutes, you know, it can be like, let's say, at home, it could be before you get out of the car to go into the office, if you just quiet yourself down, take some deep breaths in and deep breaths out and just do that a few times right away brings a very peaceful, relaxed sense to your system. And sometimes you can just ask a question, you know, let's say you're dealing with a problem with a colleague, and you have all the data but it's still not moving forward. I've helped them on this, I've tried this, you can say, what is the next right thing or action I need to do. And sometimes as you're quiet at that moment, something may come to you, as I articulated earlier, or it may be after you finish that an hour later, something will come to your mind, you have to allow that quietness, to hear and I think that's why, you know, with the pandemic, more people are open to listening because things got quiet. And the more noise we have around us, the harder it is to hear. So that very simple technique is very, very powerful. The second thing is at the end of the day, many people keep journals, like gratitude journal, writing down what they're grateful for, etc. You can also do an intuition moment as well, where you did follow your intuition that day, it can be very simple things. And if you start to write it down, it can be from simple things like, I thought of so and so when I was in the office, to stop by here and I'm so glad I did, because she's really been struggling because her mother died. And I just got a sense that she might have been sent in. And she really was in a tough place. I'm so glad I followed it. writing those things down can also help you be more attentive, those are two simple ways. There's a lot more. But those are two simple ways to start for anyone who's looking to go deeper.
Neelie Verlinden: I think these are great ways to get started as well. Thank you so much for sharing. And I think the stillness, this is very true what you said. There's just a couple of minutes a day. And I think, on a bit of a larger scale. This is what happened for a lot of people over the past two years, especially at the start of the pandemic, when a lot of people had perhaps more stillness in their lives. And they started thinking about their purpose and alignment of their values with the company's values. And this is part of the reason why so many people then started looking for different jobs already towards the end of last year. So I think that's a very interesting one as well.
Brian G. Bachand: Yeah, you're so 1,000% spot on, you know, and I think what happened is, there were no interruptions, especially during the major lockdown periods, you know, you couldn't go out for drinks after work, you weren't able to go away, you couldn't just, you know, there were so many times that you were with yourself. And that's where it started to grow. And that had a direct impact to the future of work and listening. People were listening for the first time and now organizations need to listen, and how that works. Organizations have intuition as well.
Neelie Verlinden: Yes. And I think we will get to that a little bit later as well. But now, talking about connecting with your intuition, and perhaps you know, to give some people that might be in the audience that is perhaps a little bit more skeptical about our talk about intuition. You work with a lot of different companies, Brian, and you talk with many different people as well. So I would like to touch on what kinds of beautiful things happen when people listen more to their intuition in the work they do. First of all, in terms of their relationships with colleagues, for instance.
Brian G. Bachand: The more you tap into your intuition, the more peaceful you are as a human being. That's the bottom line. And that is the number one foundation of what happens because our intuition is to help us live happy, aligned, and peaceful lives. It doesn't mean that everything is. It doesn't mean there aren't hardships or challenges. But that is number one. That is what helps us to go towards. Number two, I think it's really important. Some of the things I've noticed that the leaders I work with, in particular, that create the space for themselves to do some of that inner work, their high performers are the ones that are able to make the greatest impact in their organization. And so one of the things I do in all my practices with leaders is I actually begin every session teaching them a breathing technique, and the breathing techniques kind of lower stress, they're scientifically proven, and it makes the space of our conversation that we have even richer, because we're allowing more things to come forward. And even if they're trying to talk about growth of their company, and how they're going to do it, that's great. But it always now creates an openness of really listening and seeing what's coming forward. And it's amazing. Oftentimes, they'll say, Gee, I've had this experience with this particular colleague, and I'm seeing that I need to listen more, that's some of the things that come out of it, or I need to think of this in a different way. This is an old system, and I want to try and help create something together to move this forward. So those are some of the ways that you know, the leaders I work with and individuals that are being open and integrating that. And it has a huge impact. It helps them have more clarity, that even though they have strategies and pipelines and data, it actually affirms it and brings it even further.
Neelie Verlinden: That’s beautiful interaction. I mean, then I wanted to also touch on, you know, how does this help in terms of how the business performs? So you just touched on that a little bit. But maybe you have another example that you can share?
Brian G. Bachand: Yeah, absolutely. So you know, so first of all, I mean, I work a lot with sometimes new CEOs, so CEOs that are now in a major role for the first time in the C suite. And I think one of the things that happened with one particular CEO is she was very clear about, you know, she had all these strategic plans of how they had to grow. There were a lot of demands from the investors on where they wanted things to be. But she actually had a very beautiful approach. She said, I see the strategic planning that we're doing. They don't know this, but it's really visioning. She said, when I'm part of those sessions, I'm all about what is the vision that we're going for? And how do we want to visualize that, attract it and put into action, what we're going to do, and it had a huge impact of the individuals that were attracted to work for the company, there had been some retention issues. And because of the way she phrased and looked at the vision of where things were going, it changed how they were attracting and engaging employers into the organization. And it just changed everything. Total 360.
Neelie Verlinden: Brian, I'm thinking that in an ideal world, if we can just, you know, be very optimistic here and fantasize a little bit, how do you see or what role do you believe that our intuition should play in our working lives? How would you place that ideally?
Brian G. Bachand: So the first has to be not hooh hoohing it, or saying it doesn't exist? So I firmly believe if you're running an asset management company, if you're running, you know, a financial institution or an education institution - doesn't matter what it is, yes, you have the expertise, you know the field, you know what you want to accomplish. And that's great, and you need to have that expertise. At the same time, we cannot limit ourselves to what we think needs to take place in those discussions. Our intuition will often receive information from someone else to be open to what is taking place. And I think in an ideal world, the more that leaders will maybe be at a meeting and say, Well, I appreciate all the data you've mentioned, here, I see it. However, I just really feel that we need to look at this other opportunity, or I really think there's something I can't even pinpoint that we need to look at more. Let's take a look at that. Let's be curious about it. The more that leadership mentions that, the more that energizes those around them. And to really look at that, like I said, the very beginning, it's about the desire. It doesn't mean you have to know everything, but you can test it. And I really believe the leaders who do that inner work will awakened that desire to make that impact. They're the ones that will set that tone and demonstrate that and not be afraid to mention it and to be open and curious.
Neelie Verlinden: Yeah, absolutely. And that actually partially brings me to something else that I wanted to talk about. What do you believe companies, and HR perhaps in particular, because this podcast is called All About HR, after all, what can HR do in companies to help their employees with this? So one element, I guess, here is what you just said, the fact that leaders demonstrate this and that they mentioned it so that it becomes really ingrained in the culture and in the work environment. But maybe there are some other examples that you came across.
Brian G. Bachand: One of the biggest things is HR, there's the word human in it. So put that first. And I really mean that. I'm not saying anything new that hasn't been said. But it's absolutely fundamental. Humans are engaged in companies and organizations and humans have evolved, and they are different now than they were in 2019. And HR has to accept that, know that, and create an environment that brings that together. The old way of kind of top-down approach, the old way of just having humans that are there maybe having on their wall on their website, these are our values, but not really living it, people aren't going to put up with that anymore. And HR has to realize that, embrace that, and create ways to make that a really fundamental aspect of the environment. So there are many organizations, and you're so well aware of this, and I'm sure so many who are listing are also doing this, there are wonderful wellness programs and part of companies, there's meditation available, there is yoga, there are all kinds of different formats, the more organizations that create that bring that in a holistic way, they are the ones that are going to be able to move forwards, those are the ones who are going to have an intuitive led approach that is going to be aligned with their people. And that's the future, and HR, and not just HR, but all leaders, they need to embrace that. And that's what we're here for.
Neelie Verlinden: Yeah. And then on that note, Brian, what can we do to try and you know, neutralize the whole taboo around, you know, the word intuition alone at work. What can we do about that?
Brian G. Bachand: Yeah, you know, I think one of it is, first of all, I think having this conversation on this platform is really great. I think oftentimes when you know, topics like intuition come up, or you know, self-discovery, you think of people that are going to be like on a yoga mat with beads around their neck, and you know, kind of just in these flowing robes and you know, drinking tai chi, and those are all great. I'm not, you know, there's nothing against that. But I think having individuals like myself who were, you know, was an executive and others who are executives that speak about it, and show how it impacted their life, their professional development or teams, that normalizes it, and it really brings it forward. So we need people to be ambassadors, especially those in organizations that normalize it and speak about it in a way that is as natural as talking about I'm taking my vacation, or…
Neelie Verlinden: Going for a run in the morning.
Brian G. Bachand: Exactly. Oh, yeah, you know, on Thursdays, you know, I always do this wellness program or there's a meditation that I'm really committed to. Whatever it is, it just becomes normalized. And it's not about religion. That's the other thing too. Sometimes people think well, I'm very devout to my report. That's wonderful. That's beautiful. But this is about humanity. This is a human trait, however you wish to interpret that. But this is just to normalize it.
Neelie Verlinden: Yeah, great point there. I think it's just about being open about it, then sharing about it and normalizing it that way. That's a good one. And I think it's something that everybody can do as well. It really starts with ourselves.
Brian G. Bachand: Yeah, absolutely. One of the best and easiest ways to do it, too, was funny. During the pandemic, I had a client, it was a major international pharmaceutical company, and they were looking, you know, everyone was virtual, right, overnight. And you know, they were having team meetings, but it was heavy. It was heavy. So one of the things that we did is this particular leader was someone that was very attuned to who they were in their development and wanted to bring that into their team. It was a little nervous, actually. And I said, Why don't you just start with doing a gratitude exercise at the beginning of your next team meeting. And I said, each person can either share, you can do two things, you can share something in their life personally that they're grateful for but something they're grateful for in their work. And I said, and you started out and let the conversation go. That changed the team in an entirely new way. He said the conversations that came out about the things people said they were grateful for things about work appreciation, he said that was more powerful and had more design input in their work than all the offsites, dinners, and drinks after work. All these things he said that changed, gratitude are one of the best ways to start.
Neelie Verlinden: Oh, absolutely. I mean, don't get me started on gratitude, because I think my colleagues also here in the studio will become tired of me. But yes, I couldn't agree more on that one. Thank you, Brian. Now, this brings me to one of my favorite parts, actually, of each episode. And this is the part where I asked my guests about what they believe is the biggest cliche out there about HR. So let me start with that one first.
Brian G. Bachand: They’re a hold up. Like, HR is a major hold up, you know, I think that's probably like the biggest thing. HR is there as a roadblock. They are roadblock, which, you know, thank goodness for HR, because in many ways they are the ones that help prevent risks and a lot of issues. But I think most people see HR as a major roadblock, not on their side. And it's a battle every time you cross that threshold to go in to speak to him. Yeah.
Neelie Verlinden: I think that's a good observation of a cliche indeed. And then another thing Brian, is, I always like to ask if there's an epic win, and an epic fail that you would like to share. Can be anything. Can be personal. Can be professional. Can be a combination, anything you are comfortable with.
Brian G. Bachand: You know, I would say probably the biggest epic wins personally for me. And this ties into our conversation today about desire and intuition was, I had been a partner in a firm. I decided to leave. Decided to go out on my own. And I thought I was going to get my company up and running in no time. And to be honest with you, it was kind of…I was kind of a hot mess for a couple of months. It was the first time in my life that it wasn't clicking, I wasn't sure. And finally, someone said to me, Brian, give yourself some time. And really, it was my ego that was in the way because I felt, Oh, I have to have this up and running to show everybody what I've done. The New Yorker in me was really driving it. When I gave myself the time, I asked myself the question, what do I desire, and I desired to travel and I desired to go to a place I've never been, and a desire to do a retreat. So I went to Australia, by myself. And the biggest epic win was that this wellness retreat for seven days. And in Queensland, Australia, it was hiking and all this organic food and meditation and a beautiful spa. And that week of that space, I created this space with clarity of what to do next in my creation and it gave me so much joy. And that was one of the greatest epic wins personally, that to this day still influences my work and inspires me. So that is one of the things I'm really happy about.
Neelie Verlinden: Fantastic. Yeah, that made me think of those two minutes a day or you know, a few minutes a day. But this was basically those two minutes in, you know, enlarged time, let's say hundreds. And let's see, look at what a beautiful result that actually brought you and still brings you.
Brian G. Bachand: Yeah, and I mean, that's not something you do all the time, right. I mean, you know, two minutes a day, and those things are beautiful. But I think there are moments in life that you do need to take more time, depending on where you are in life experience, etc. But yeah, I was really grateful for that.
Neelie Verlinden: Oh, thank you for sharing. And thank you very much for spending this time with me talking about intuition at work and talking about desire, I really enjoyed the conversation. So thank you very much.
Brian G. Bachand: Thank you. It's such a joy to be here with you. And thank you for all that you're doing to bring so many insightful conversations into the world. And it's just a joy to see that and I wish you and your audience nothing but the best and feel free for anyone who wishes to connect as well.
Neelie Verlinden: Yes. On that note, by the way, Brian, if people want to connect with you, where can they best do so?
Brian G. Bachand: So one of the best places that I'm super active is LinkedIn. So I invite you to be part of the community as I call it, not just a network, I refer to the people that I connect with as my community. So I invite you to be part of that and join me there. Also, you can certainly connect through my website, which is evolutionevolution.com. A new one is about to be launched very soon. So this one seems a little dated but a new one is in the works. And really welcome to hear from anyone that listens and happy to help you tap into your intuition.
Neelie Verlinden: Nice. Thank you and thank you everybody for tuning in today for this episode of All About HR. If you haven't done so yet, please don't forget to like this episode, subscribe to the channel, and hit the notification bell. And then I hope to see you very soon again for a new episode. Thank you and goodbye.